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From Fairy Tales to Hard Truths: A “Cinderella” Director Rewrites His Family Script in the Battle against Addiction

Screengrab of Waismann Method podcast hosts: A “Cinderella” Director Rewrites His Family Script in the Battle against Addiction
WAISMANN METHOD® Podcast

Episode 67: Hollywood Writer and Director on Battling Addiction within His Own Family

Dive into an inspiring journey from fairy tales on the big screen to the raw, real-life struggles of addiction and recovery. In this powerful episode, a Hollywood writer and director, Mark Rosman, known for hits like “A Cinderella Story” and “Lizzie McGuire,” shares his deeply personal story of battling addiction within his own family.

As he navigates the heartbreaking lows and triumphant highs of his daughter’s journey to sobriety, Mark reveals the transformative power of parental love and support. Discover how his upcoming film “Keep Coming Back” shifts the focus from the person facing substance use disorder to the family’s crucial role in the recovery process.

Join Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II, David Livingston, LMFT, and Dwight Hurst, CMHC as they explore the untold story behind the scenes and uncover the profound impact of family dynamics on recovery. Tune in for a conversation that will move, motivate, and inspire you to look at substance misuse and addiction through a new lens.

Podcast Episode Summary:

  1. From the Screen to Reality: Director Mark Rosman shares his family’s unexpected battle with his daughter’s substance use, revealing the stark contrast between his professional and personal life.
  2. A Parent’s Journey: Mark discusses the emotional rollercoaster of denial, fear, and acceptance that he and his wife faced, and how they learned to support their daughter’s recovery.
  3. Transformative Love: The episode highlights the pivotal role of parental involvement in recovery, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries and taking care of oneself.
  4. Breaking New Ground: Learn about Mark’s upcoming film, “Keep Coming Back,” which uniquely focuses on the parents’ perspective in the recovery process, offering a fresh narrative in the genre.
  5. Empowerment and Hope: The discussion provides valuable insights from Clare Waismann and David Livingston on effective treatment and the critical need for family support, leaving listeners with a message of hope and resilience.

Transcript:

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And welcome back, everyone, all of our listeners and viewers, uh, to A Podcast to Answer Your Questions on Addiction, Recovery and Mental Health. I’m Dwight Hurst, your co-host and a clinical mental health counselor. Uh, so honored once again to be able to be joining and be listened to and watched by all of you out there, but even more grateful to be here with a wonderful group of experts that we are always with, some of them and and one in particular, who we are not always with, but are happy to be with today I’m going to go around the virtual room here to meet our panel of experts. First, of course, we’re joined by Clare Waismann, who’s a registered addiction specialist and substance use disorder certified counselor. She’s the creator of the Waismann Method, opioid detoxification specialists, and also Domus Retreat Aftercare. Hi, Clare.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Hello. How are you? How is everybody?

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Doing good. Doing good so far and expecting to even do better. Uh, David Livingston’s also joining us. David is a licensed marriage and family therapist and our program’s clinical lead. Uh, he is a psychotherapist and a leading expert in the field of addiction and the psychological needs that are, uh, attached to that. Welcome, David.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: Thanks. Good to be here.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Now, we are super honored today to have Mark Rosman joining us. Mark is a screenwriter and director with over 30 years experience working in the field and also particularly working in telling stories of families. He’s worked on many Disney projects as well as many others. He’s worked on the show, Even Stevens, Lizzie McGuire, uh, the Disney movie A Cinderella Story, and also the Lindsay Lohan film Life-Size. Mark, I mean, that’s just a few that that I, you know, cherry-picked to mention. Um, and, uh, Mark is here to tell us a little bit about his experience from years ago when his daughter experienced some serious addiction problems and the impact that had upon, uh, upon her and upon you, your wife and your family. Um, so and we’re honored to hear that and grateful for your vulnerability, uh, as well as the current project that you’re about to film called Keep Coming Back, which I believe is the first, uh, narrative film that’s focused on the experience and how important parents are in the process of addiction recovery treatment and all of those things. So, Mark, welcome, welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for being here.

Mark Rosman: Well, thank you. I’m really excited to be here and to talk to you and to talk with Clare and David as well.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Uh, I feel like a good place to start today would be, uh, Mark, just to ask you a little bit about, uh, the events and the feelings and thoughts that led you to, uh, pursue this current project. And we can talk, you know, we’ll talk about some of the general things you’ve learned as well. But what led you to write and, uh, and start the film, Keep Coming Back.

Mark Rosman: Yeah. Well, um, I had been in the film business for many, many years. Um, and as you said, making a lot of films that focused on families, you know, generally they were kind of comedies or, uh, you know, sort of fun adventure films. Um, and here I was directing all these, um, perfect sitcom kind of families like Even Stevens and Lizzie McGuire. And I started to realize, uh, wait a second, there’s actually a problem in my own family, which is that our only child, um, who was about 15 at the time, um, was clearly getting into, um, substance misuse and, um, it sort of took both my wife and I by surprise. Neither of us have any, um, addiction that we know of in our families. And so we were, you know, uh, taken by surprise and also in a very healthy dose of denial at first, um, you know, thinking the last thing this is, is has anything to do with drugs. It’s really, you know, we were much more willing to consider and look at possible emotional issues that she might be going through as a teenager, um, and focusing on that. Um, but then things changed and we, we did start to focus on what the real problem was.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I think that’s the reaction that we see a lot. Clare, you talked to lots of parents who contact the Wiseman program as well. What do you see with that reactions of parents in regards to denial and also adjustment?

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: I see often like Mark was saying that, you know, the first thing is that denial, you know, not my child. So, you know, you start focusing on everything else, but. And what delays things quite a bit. Because you truly, even if it’s right there in your face, you’re always trying to look, you know, around it. So usually until something happens that forces you to see what’s really going on and accept it. You don’t. And it’s human. I mean, it’s nothing to know. As parents, we are just not prepared for, you know, such an extensive issue. So it’s normal. It’s human. And there’s something that makes us, as parents grow, you know, emotionally and as a person. So we start judging less, supporting more, trying to understand not just our kids, but ourselves more. So it’s, uh, definitely a group effort.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: There’s nothing that attaches to, like, parental love. I think more than fear emotionally as well. I know that when I look at my kids and they get old, by the way, I don’t know if anybody’s noticed that, but they just keep doing that. It seems like every year or so they get a year older. Um, but I still look and see those little kids and it’s scary.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Yeah, it’s fear and acceptance. I think acceptance is such an important factor, regardless of what they’re going through, especially with addiction – being able to, you know, be accepted by your parents and, you know, supported through that difficult time in your life that, again, as parents, we don’t expect neither does the kid.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: What was that process like for, for you and, and for your wife Mark? That evolutionary process for you guys?

Mark Rosman: Yeah. So we had, um, she had a child psychiatrist and, uh, then we brought her to see a guy who we had heard was great with teenagers and really knew the the drug world and, and all of that. And we brought her to see him and he recommended to us that she’s got, you know, some serious drug use going on. We’ve got to send her to a rehab. And we were still in denial about it, and we had a plan already in place to send her to a therapeutic boarding school, which we did and, um, to for her senior year in high school because she had been expelled from high school. And, um, she went there and about three months into that, we get a call from somebody at the boarding school who’s at the emergency room with our daughter who had downed a bottle of Listerine. And that’s when we realized, okay, this is really a problem, that, that we knew. Of course, she was dabbling in drugs, but now we realize this was serious and we had to do something about it. So we had her go right from there, right? Basically from the emergency room to, um, Hazelden Betty Ford in Minnesota. And that was her first rehab. And that began the process where we, I would say to follow up with what Clare is saying. I think that was our first moment of acceptance that we were dealing with, um, you know, drug misuse.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: What kind of emotions did you feel at that time, if I can ask? I mean, it’s probably a cluster of different feelings at that moment.

Mark Rosman: Yeah. I mean, fear is right up there. I mean, it was, um, you know, very scary to think that, you know, our child could be going through this and, um, confusion, uh, about it, um, anxiety about it. That was through the roof, you know, um, guilt, you know, what did we do? Um, how did this happen? You know. Um, and what’s, you know, our role in it at that point, thinking a little more negatively like that we may have caused this in some respect. Um, so lots of, of pretty negative emotions, um, are just flooding through us.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Um, I was curious for David, what’s what’s some of your experience with those that transition?

David B. Livingston, LMFT: How old was your daughter at the time?

Mark Rosman: She was 15, 16 at this point. Okay.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: All right. Um, well, I’m just curious, because it has to do with sort of the way I think about things. Where where was she at in treatment? Like, what was she wanting to go to treatment? Was she not wanting to go? How was that part of that whole experience?

Mark Rosman: Um, yeah. She was not wanting to go, but, um, willing, if that makes sense. She, um, likes just starting with a therapeutic boarding school. She, you know, didn’t love the idea, but we drove her there, and that was okay. Um, going, I think, you know, coming from the emergency room there, I think she was willing to go to rehab, but there was always, um, she wasn’t on board with, oh, I need treatment. She was not there. She was willing to do what we were telling her to do, but she wasn’t exactly, um, you know, totally on board with it.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: How severe was it? Was it dangerous? I mean, to the point where there’s risk of life and death. How severe had it become?

Mark Rosman: Yeah. It was. We couldn’t keep her safe. Is, you know, kind of what they kept telling us. Um, yeah. I mean, she was doing hard. She was dabbling in a lot of different things. And hard drugs was one of them. So, yeah, it was serious.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I have a question that I think this is probably good for all three of you with the different perspectives. Um, what would you see as differences, important differences in types of treatment? Uh, Mark, you’ve touched on that you guys were engaging with just general emotional health, mental health, even that boarding school, it’s not a low level of care. But at the same time it wasn’t addressing her actual needs. And we bring in like addiction-informed, uh, care. And so throw this out to everybody. What are some of the important differences in the way that that that care is delivered?

Mark Rosman: Well I don’t know in our in our case, it was, you know, um, going right into inpatient for her residential where she, you know, was there full time. I mean, that’s what I’m familiar with being the highest level basically of treatment. And, uh, so she was there for, you know, 30 days and then, you know, and in her case at that time, she did come back to the boarding school and actually graduated high school, came back to LA, but then relapsed and we sent her back to Hazelton, back to residential. But after that she stepped down to what they, I think used to call IOP Intensive outpatient, where, you know, she’s not living there, but she’s going every day, basically to a program and living in some kind of a controlled environment, um, like a sober, sober living house. And so that’s kind of what she did next. Um, but, you know, later down the line after, you know, um, in and out of various places, she ended up, um, we sent her to a long-term program. Um, that was on the East Coast where it started, you know, had all the levels sort of started where, you know, it’s full on. You’re in the most, uh, you know, um, concentrated sort of care, and then you kind of earn your way to living, you know, in, you know, not going to the program every single moment. It kind of loosening and then finally, eventually, you know, living on your own and and getting a job so kind of steps you down.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And then yeah. David and Clare, what are some of your feelings about levels of care or types of care? I know that’s important to obviously important to a lot of people out there. And it’s a question I think we hear sometimes.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: I think it’s a complicated issue. In general, you want everybody to be on board and that’s not always possible. And so you’re always assessing level of risk. And you know, sometimes people are dabbling in things and it’s more experimental. Sometimes they’re trouble and they’re heading for real danger, and that’s a different world. And so you’re, you’re assessing all of this and you’re also assessing their ego strength. You’re assessing their network. There’s so many factors that go into kind of how, you know, um, how vulnerable someone is, depending on many, many factors. And, um, so it’s, it’s, um, and it’s often confusing because you will hear so many different things from so many different people. I mean, on and on and on and, um, but as I’ve said on this podcast many, many times since, the biggest driver in compulsivity is perceived helplessness along with anger and frustration. You want to keep people out of, uh, feeling trapped and stuck, right? So sometimes when that happens, you’ll tend to see more compulsivity or acting out in different ways. So to the degree possible, if you can get whoever’s struggling with the addiction on board, right. They’ll tend to internalize more of the treatment. They’ll tend to participate better, you know, and you know, the the perceived helplessness and the frustration tends to get lower. It’s not always easy to do because sometimes they’re resistant, they’re in trouble. And so it’s a complicated scenario and often very, very confusing and difficult on on parents to sort of figure the way through it.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: One of the things I really like to hear and love to hear, Mark, is that you guys, uh, kept trying when it was like, we need to have a change in this or a change in that, or relapse and things. Uh, all too often people say, well, this isn’t working. Just bag that and we’ll just do something that’s not treatment or something, or we take a huge break. Um, and it sounds like that that relates a little to what you’re saying, though, too, David, is then the application of treatment, being aware and honest about how well it’s working can also help to shape what recommendation you might make that individualization of “If this doesn’t seem enough, we should step it up.” And if uh. And getting to know the person and what their level of readiness is as well. It sounds like those are all very important.

Mark Rosman: Well, we had some big help with that. We weren’t just making these decisions on our own. We were lucky enough to be put in touch with, um, somebody who was based out of Minnesota, um, while she was in Sober Livings there. And he was and is a, like, an addiction consultant and, um, uh, and he has a company called Clear Consulting. His name is Sam Dresser. Um, and he really helped us to, um, figure out what to do. And he knew all the all the places and met with our daughter, met with us, understood where we were at, where she was at. And that’s how we got to this place on the East Coast. Um, he presented a couple options, and, uh, we took one of them and, um, and she went there not only of the place, but he knew who the people, um, were, who were working there, who would be good to work with our daughter. So it was really helpful. And, um, and what preceded all that was, um, she was back at our house and we had our rules set up, and she broke the rule and relapsed. And, um, on our rules was she gets she doesn’t get to live at our house anymore. And we kicked her out. And that’s, you know, one of the hardest things any parent can do is, is, is kick their child out of the house. And but along with help from from Sam and, um, we had started going to Al-Anon by that point. We were in a parent support group. At that point, we were getting a lot of of support and a lot of help, and it helped us to get to that place where we could say, no, you’re out of our house and and to follow through.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: There’s a difference between taking ownership of our own choices as parents. Right. And the role that we play in trying to, uh, as you you talk about finding a healthy way to approach, what do we change about the way we’re doing things? And then that initial feeling you mentioned before, which is guilt, this is this us, did we do this? This is all our fault. Uh, how did you guys navigate the balance, uh, from moving from one to the other?

Mark Rosman: Yeah, yeah. Well, just getting to that point, um, where we there’s a saying, you know, put down the microscope and pick up the mirror. Um, just to get there, you know, certainly took a lot of a lot of work and, um, and time. We didn’t just get to that immediately, you know, a couple of years into this and going to al-anon and, and, um, having a lot of support, I’d say for me, the turning point came, we were at probably our fourth parent workshop. Um, you know, every time she went to a different treatment center, they’d have a parent workshop. And we always went, no matter where it was. And this one I started out, I was just at a point of total frustration. I remember we were in, um, uh, a group of parents, and the therapist asked everybody to go around and check-in. Where are you at? Got to me. And I was like, I don’t want to be here. This is ridiculous. It’s not doing any good. It’s, you know, she’s not getting better. I’m feeling horrible. And really, when I look back on it, I think that was my bottom. You know, I had just kind of given up. And by getting there and vocalizing that, um, I think that in and of itself, to sort of admit that to a group of other parents and a therapist, it got me to the point where I somehow, uh, I like things kind of opened up for me and a statement that I kept hearing from other parents, which was parents have to take care of themselves. And people would always respond to that by saying, yeah, you know, yes, go, go to the gym, you know, go to a spa, you’ve got to relax, you’ve got to do this.

Mark Rosman: And that never resonated for me. I was like, come on. I, you know, I go to the gym. It’s not helping. It was at that moment I had hit my bottom and I heard that statement again, and it finally clicked for me that what it meant for me was I had to put me first. That’s taking care of me. I have to look at my own feelings. I was so focused, possibly codependent, on my daughter’s problems. And also my own issue was I wasn’t setting boundaries because I was too afraid to lose her love. And so I had to that this was the moment that I finally realized, wait a second, what about me? How am I feeling? How can I put my feelings first? And that began my process, and my wife was doing a whole different process. But, uh, um, or different specifics, but a similar process. And we, you know, got to that place of wait a second, let’s look at ourselves. What are we doing? That’s, um, you know, exacerbating this problem. And so for me, it was certainly that I had to learn to set boundaries. And, um, and when I started doing that and started to take care of myself and look at what one therapist always said, look at your side of the street. And when I started to look and clean up my side of the street, um, and my wife did the same, things started to open up and a space really opened up for, I think, recovery to begin for my daughter.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: So you kind of had to live in that space of the difficult feelings at first in order to evolve. You didn’t run away, in other words. It strikes me that you were present when you talk about being in that meeting and not wanting to be there, it just hits me how much. When we’re doing healthy things, we often aren’t feeling it. It’s not in the moment. In the moment, it doesn’t feel very good. And but you were putting yourself in that place to experience that.

Mark Rosman: And it’s good to admit that, you know, I mean, I think a lot for me, I would never really admit that, you know, and I’d kind of go along and stuff. But I think to really admit it to myself and to others really helped me get, get to where I needed to go.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I’m curious from David and. Oh go ahead Clare, you first.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Mark without you know uh whatever you like to disclose. You talked about uh, she went through a, uh, child psychiatrist and, um, what I wonder is. So we’re talking a lot about treatment and, you know, the process of treatment, the, you know, the ups and downs about it. But the root of the issue, you know, how that all came about, you know, um, was there something that triggered her seeking, uh, substance? Was there a feeling, you know, that uh, she couldn’t handle? Um, you know, obviously being a teenager is hard enough. Um, but the question is, um, was there something, you know, above that, um, medically or chemically that, um, was missed and she seeks self-medication?

Mark Rosman: Well, you know, uh, I don’t I don’t know exactly, but, um, it was a stew of things. There were certainly you can look at it and say, oh, yeah, there’s a lot of contributing factors. Uh, she was adopted, so there’s that. And, um, there was, um, addiction in her, in her adoption, uh, bloodline. Um, and, um, she also had ADHD and was taking medication, uh, as a young kid with that. I mean, really started probably like around nine years old or something. Um, and, and that caused just having ADHD, you know, causes issues of, you know, of, uh, insecurity and so low self-esteem because you’re the one acting out and you’re being called on it all the time by teachers. And so so there’s that stuff, there’s sort of a stew of things that was going on. And um, um, and by the way, that that psychiatrist, uh, this was before we even sent her to the boarding school said, you know, I think she I think your daughter needs to go to this place called Hazelden in Minnesota. And we were like, what? That sounded crazy at the time. Um, so she was on it, and she was right. It was really us that weren’t listening.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: And, uh, after all the treatment, um, nowadays she’s doing great. But is there, you know, a psychiatric follow-up, you know, a certain medications to keep her at a certain mental level?

Mark Rosman: Yeah. She still has a doctor involved that she checks in with all the time as therapy. Um, yeah. I mean, and by the way, she’s now been sober for five years. She’s just doing great.

Mark Rosman: And in fact, she’s she’s getting married in, like, a month and a half. Uh, wonderful, a great guy. And, uh, we’re really happy, really proud of her. And, uh, so it’s, it’s a, you know, can’t say happy ending, but for now, she’s in just a great, great place.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Wonderful.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: Her life’s developing and seems like you figured a way to keep things moving forward.

Mark Rosman: Yeah, well, she certainly I don’t want to take all the credit, but she certainly did a lot of work. Um, and, uh, absolutely. And I think she, she really values her her life right now and doesn’t want to jeopardize that. But also, you know, I, um, having, you know, spent years going through this. I’m at the place where if she even were to relapse it, I would not fall apart. She would not fall apart. She knows what she needs to do. I know what we need to do. And I know she would. It would be a bump that she would get over. So, you know, I don’t live in like fear that she’s going to relapse. If it happens, it happens. She’ll deal with it. We’ll deal with it and it’ll be okay.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: So many times people talk about relapse prevention with the idea that it’s the end of the world. And as you just said, it’s actually I believe it’s just as or more important to have the concept of relapse recovery with the possibility to say, well, what do we do if that happens? It’s, you know, we do what we do.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: How did you find the relationship and the work that you did on maintaining the relationship through this process? That’s a rocky road, especially when you’re drawing tight boundaries to have to to to look at how it affects the relationship that you guys have with your daughter throughout treatment.

Mark Rosman: Well, I would say it when we started to change, our relationship with her got a lot better. I mean, uh, you know, just speaking for me, uh, my, when I started to look at how I feel and, um, and, and starting to set boundaries and just saying no, um, on my anxiety level went way down because I wasn’t worried about her reaction. I was focused on my own reaction. And that was huge. And once I started to do that, yeah. She pushed back. But I did engage with it, you know, I just said no. And, um, and slowly our relationship actually got better. And it was the same with my wife. Um, so it absolutely, you know, got better by us looking at our, our own behavior, making changes. It was great.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: David, would you comment a little bit on what you see as successful involvement of parents?

David B. Livingston, LMFT: From what Mark’s saying is everybody found a way to learn and grow. And so through that process, I mean that that is the goal of treatment period. Really. It’s for in multiple ways to learn and grow, to be able to look at things as they are, figure out what’s going to make them better, and struggle, if you will, existentially until everybody starts to get better. And um, and then like as Mark says, is everyone learns and grows, there’s more stability. And even if there’s bumps in the roads or problems, the ability to manage it, handle it, know what to do, you know, is is far more in place. And that’s the goal that so it sounds really good.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Uh, Mark, I’m curious a little bit about how you arrived at the title of your film, Keep Coming Back.

Mark Rosman: Well, it’s it’s a good question. It’s, um, it’s a saying that you hear, um, at the, um, in Al-Anon meetings, especially when a new person comes in and they share for the first time, uh, we always end with, “keep coming back”. Um, because as they say, it works if you work it. Um, and I feel like the title has many levels, um, you know, it’s just sticking with something. Um, the, the whole film came about because, you know, when sobriety was starting to take hold with my daughter, me being a writer and a director, I knew instantly I had to make a movie about this. But at first, I was thinking about more of a typical movie that focuses on the addict, because the addict has got, you know, the more dramatic, interesting life. Colorful, that’s for sure. Um, and I didn’t want to just make a film like that because I feel like there’s been, you know, hundreds if not thousands of films like that, and it just didn’t feel like I was adding anything. And then that’s when I, you know, looked in the mirror and I said, well, wait a second. I’m actually a pretty interesting character for a film because I go through this big journey from denial to not only acceptance but change. And, um, and as I started to research more about it, um, I realized that there really hadn’t been a film made, uh, certainly a narrative film that doesn’t, that’s addiction related but doesn’t focus on the addict focuses on what the family is going through.

Mark Rosman: And so that’s when I knew I had something that was really worth making. And so and that’s what the script is about. It’s about a father who has a 17-year-old who he finds out is, uh, you know, abusing drugs, and he’s widowed. The mother had died five years ago. And so he’s a single dad, and he’s a busy director. Uh, you know, I obviously based a lot of the things on our own family, and, uh, he sends her off to a rehab, um, in Utah, and he’s in LA, and. But then they call him a couple days later and say, you know, you haven’t signed up for the parent workshop. It’s a four-day workshop, and they require at least one parent to attend, or they’re going to send the kid back to him, and he realizes he’s got to go and he’s kind of against it. He’s like, isn’t it your job to fix our daughter? You know, um, and the movie is about him learning that it’s not exactly that simple, um, that the parents have to look at their own behavior and be willing to make some changes, and when they do, that often can open that space for recovery. And that’s what the film is about.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: It’s it’s interesting because, um. In any good treatment, the, uh, the therapist has to learn as much as as the, uh, I don’t know about as much, but has to learn a lot, um, about how to treat the person and and and how they’re effective and how they’re ineffective and what they’re doing that’s not creating, uh, that’s not helpful. And the things that are helpful and that’s, that’s it’s, you know, and I think the worst therapy is when it is considered that I’m here, you’ve got the problem and I’m here to sort of what to do. It’s usually the least helpful thing you can do. Um, it’s a few exceptions, but, um, so it’s kind of what you’re talking about. It’s like, so she’s trying to internalize and create a new environment internally in some ways externally for herself. And the same has to happen in some ways for, you know, the people around her. And the more that happens, the more everybody grows and internalizes. And, um, it just gets better.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: There’s the old, uh, sort of, uh, discipline within therapy, I remember, was drilled into me during my training, which is to always remember that the client in the room has the expertise that’s the most important. You know, as in the therapeutic role, we’ve been trained for general knowledge, whereas they have the specific expertise and knowledge of themselves in their lives. And it occurred to me, as we’re talking about how, uh, either in appearance shoes or in a professional’s shoes, are we negating the great expertise that we can gain from someone who is so intimately connected to the person who’s going through treatment and are we respecting our own expertise as a parent and finding that empowerment that you’ve obviously found from saying, my involvement can help. And even if the things I was doing weren’t helpful, I can find the things that are.

Mark Rosman: Yeah. Well, there’s another great metaphor that I’ve heard from a therapist, which is, you know, you send your kid to, um, therapy or to treatment, and it’s as if they’re getting brand new white tennis shoes put on. But then when they come home, if they’re coming back to the same place, it’s all all the mud and the dirt is still there. They’re just going to get those shoes dirty again. The environment that they come back to needs to shift as well for there to be some real growth.

David B. Livingston, LMFT: Most definitely. Yeah.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Well, I will say, you know, uh, it’s a wonderful film that you’re making a wonderful experience. And I’m so happy to hear about how she’s doing now and as well as how you’re doing now and in relation to not only the addiction, but to the just the quality of life and the safety and security that she is enjoying. I’m excited to see the film as it moves forward and as it comes out as well. The whole purpose why we do this show is to get information out there and to help everybody to know about their own safety, security, happiness, health and with such a scary issue as addiction. And I’m, uh, grateful and glad to see that you’re doing the same thing through this film and sharing hope, which I think is a main part of anything that has to do with addiction. So thank you.

Mark Rosman: Yeah, well, you’re very welcome. And, uh, the film is we’re still trying to get the financing together for it, and, and, um, it’s both a charitable deduction to donate to the film or it’s also open to investment. And you can see on the screen the website for the film is KeepComingBackFilm.com. And even if you’re just interested in checking it out and and just following us because we plan to shoot this, uh, early next year, um, and hopefully it’ll be on a streaming service near you. Um, but we still need some help to get it to get it going. So if you want to check it, check it out at the website. That’d be great.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I know it’s a thing we’ve talked about a lot on this show. If you are spreading awareness or you’re trying to help, there’s a couple of ways you can do that. Here’s one directly that you just mentioned, which is you can get involved and help, uh, if you are in a position to be able to donate to worthy causes such as what you’re working on with your film, I think that that’s something people should definitely look at. If I always like to add, if anyone out there is not in that position, it doesn’t cost anything to share on your social media. We’re probably sharing a whole lot of things anyway. Might as well share something that is going to have good results as well is that, in fact, it may take time away from sharing things on our social media that maybe we’re not. Maybe we should think twice about as well. So that’s something people can always do.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Well speaking of information as we’re drawing up on today, um, so grateful for what we’ve already shared. And we want to invite everybody out there to share with us as well. We want to hear from you and hear about the questions and the information that you’d like to learn more about and addiction recovery, mental health, and related to all those things. You can reach us at info@opiates.com. Go to opiates.com to learn more about Waismann Specialists, and also to reach us on social media. Anywhere we are @Opiates where you can find us there as well. This podcast is a production of Waismann Method Opioid Treatment Specialists and Rapid Detox. The music we use for the intro is the song Medical by Clean Mind Sounds. I just want to say, uh, thanks again and, uh, wonderful to be here with you, Mark, with, uh, Clare, David and I’ve been Dwight as well here co-hosting with you all. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Remember to keep asking questions, because when you ask questions, you can find answers. And whenever you find answers, you can find hope. We will be back with you again very soon. Thanks, everybody.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Thank you, thank you. Pleasure.