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Rapid Detox Unveiled: The Science & Success Behind Waismann Method Opioid Treatment

Rapid Detox Unveiled: Photo screenshot of Waismann Method Podcast Live Recording with Clare Waismann, Michael H. Lowenstein, David B. Livingston LMFT and Dwight Hurst, CMHC.

Comprehensive Opioid Recovery: Insights & Guidance from Experts

In a world filled with exaggerated claims, it’s vital to understand what real, safe, and effective opioid detox looks like. Equip yourself with knowledge and discern fact from marketing fiction.

Embark on a comprehensive exploration of opioid detoxification and recovery with Waismann Method panel of experts – Clare Waismann, a renowned substance use disorder certified counselor and the innovative mind behind Waismann Method, Michael H. Lowenstein M.D., a globally recognized expert in anesthesia, pain management, addiction and anti-aging & regenerative medicine, with David Livingston, a clinical director of Waismann Method’s post-detox recovery facility, Domus Retreat, specializing in psychotherapy for long-term addiction sufferers. 

Discover key insights into the holistic approach to treatment, including:

  • Evaluating treatment options for opioid dependence.
  • Pre-detox evaluation: Understanding the importance of thorough medical assessment and individualized treatment plans before beginning opioid detox.
  • During detox: Unraveling the science behind rapid detox and emphasizing the need for personalized care and comprehensive support during the detox process.
  • Post-detox care: Exploring the critical role of aftercare and ongoing support in maintaining long-term recovery and addressing underlying psychological and emotional needs.

Join us as we delve into these essential elements of opioid dependence treatment, guiding listeners toward a path of healing, empowerment, and lasting recovery.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Hello everyone, and welcome back. We’re glad to have everybody coming back to join us on a podcast to answer your questions on addiction recovery and mental health by Waismann Method Treatment and Rapid Detox Center. I’m Dwight Hurst, I’m a clinical mental health counselor and co-host for the show, and I am joined by our wonderful panel of people, our wonderful cast of characters that we always have on this show for the wonderful discussions and questions that we do our best to answer for you. Joined by Clare Waismann, who is the founder of both Waismann Method Opioid Detoxification Specialists and the Domus Retreat. Uh, Clare is, of course, a substance use disorder certified counselor and a registered addiction specialist. And her expertise and work, she’s dedicated her life to shaping the field of addiction treatment and helping with this concept and practice of opiate detoxification. Um, our program, clinical psychotherapist, uh, David Livingston, is a licensed marriage and family therapist and a leading expert in this field, helping patients who struggle on the spectrum of addiction and addressing their underlying mental health challenges that generally attend those issues as well. And, of course, by our wonderful medical director, Doctor Michael Lowenstein. Uh, he’s a globally recognized expert in both anesthesia-assisted opioid detoxification, which is also known as, uh, rapid detox, of course, and brings a vast expertise and knowledge in both anesthesiology, pain management and addiction recovery. Uh. Welcome, everybody.

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: Good morning.


Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Great to be here with with everybody. Uh, once again, I am, uh, excited to dig into this, our topic today. And the questions that we’re going to be answering have to do with, uh, the the unveiling, its rapid detox unveiled. Great title to kind of set the stage. We’re going to be talking about the science and success behind the way that we do things Waismann Method Opioid Treatment and just, uh, what is exactly this, this practice of detoxification and also opiates. This is, uh, a field and a world where there are lots of different, uh, claims and different things that people say of what treatment is and what it should be. And we’re going to dig into, uh, uh, into that. So let’s, uh, let’s, let’s dive right in. One of our first question that we have is, since there are so many exaggerated claims about treatment and recovery, it’s very important for people to understand what real, safe and effective detox does look like. So, uh, and maybe Doctor Lowenstein, it might be good to start with you on this one. How do we how do we know or what should we expect when we come across either claims or expectations of what detox should be and what it should look like?

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: So when talking about detox, I think one thing to understand is every patient is an individual and they come seeking detox with their own individual needs and and background and history. But the one common factor of all patients is if you use opiates, you become opiate dependent. And if you stop opiates you have a withdrawal syndrome. Right. So that’s the one commonality. So how do we treat that? You know, there’s you can go unaided and there’s unaided detoxes that can last days, weeks or months and, and experience the full experience. And then there’s a lot of other detox options out there. The one that I’m a proponent of and have specialized in for over 25 years now is rapid opiate detox, or ultra-rapid opiate detox, because I feel that there’s certain things that are basically essential. You want to be able to detox somebody safely, effectively, and once you’ve detox them, then you can address all the other issues that surround addiction and all the other aspects. But the first step is detox. So I feel that to safely and effectively detox somebody, you have to have a full understanding of their underlying medical issues. So that involves an assessment, you know, history, physical, bloodwork. Um, and once you have an understanding of what their underlying medical issues are, you have to understand what substances they’re using or abusing and how that affects their physiology. Um, and so I think it’s “for safe and effective” to me, it means doing this in a, in a hospital-based setting where the patients come in.

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: And on day one, we do a complete history and physical, and we do chest x-rays and EKGs and blood work, um, to fully understand what their underlying medical issues are. And then we can hydrate and we can pre-medicate, and we can replace electrolytes and monitor blood pressure and blood sugars. So they’re they’re optimized before undergoing a detox. And then, um, for what I do, we do rapid detox. Right. So that’s done in a, in a very closely monitored ICU setting. Um, I can give them sedation so they don’t remember or feel anything. I’ve already premedicated to block the part of the nervous system that causes the withdrawal. And then I can give them a medication to accelerate or precipitate the withdrawal while they’re asleep, and then closely monitor them, um, in the ICU setting for 24 hours, and then to get them over to an aftercare setting. That’s very supportive, um, where we can monitor and begin to address the other issues while their body transitions to its new normal. So for me, the “safe, effective” it involves all of those things: the pre-assessment, the premedication, the actual procedure itself, and then the supportive environment afterwards so we can support them and help them transition to an opiate-free state, um, and begin to address any underlying issues that have brought them to where they are today. So I think that in a nutshell, those are the components of a safe, effective, um, rapid detox.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: You know…Clare, I’d be interested to hear your perspective on this, as well as being the founder and having been in this business for so long, and the way that you set up, uh, the clinic and the treatment specialization, how have you seen that evolve with the, the world of rapid detox? And how do you see that industry and that treatment? What should people know about it?

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: I think it’s, um, it’s medicine. And medicine is as good as the physician that is practicing it. Um, you know, the, um, the responsibility, the experience, um, of the physician. Makes all the difference. So I think the word “rapid” has to be used, um, very responsibly because, uh, how rapid you can do something or you can treat somebody that has been taking a drug for ten years, 20 years. There’s a limit for how rapid that should be. Um, there is a responsibility for the patient. Um. I think when Doctor Lowenstein talks about admitting the patient the day before the procedure, it is so important, you know. So many times we have found, you know, Doctor Lowenstein and his team has found things. The patient was not even aware of what was going on. Um, there’s also, um, what patients are ingesting 24 hours before the procedure. Uh, you know, especially with illicit drugs, there is so many, um, different chemicals that could be in there. And if you admit the patient the day of procedure, you don’t know what you’re dealing with. You don’t know the they know the combination of the drugs that we give them and what they’ve taken. You know, what the effects of that can be. So again, responsible medicine is incredibly important. And again, you’re dealing with human beings. So you can’t just, you know, uncover that blanket that numb them physically and emotionally for so long, send them to hotel room with a family member and hope for the best. Everybody’s full of anxiety. Everybody’s full of fear. Um, the patient is fragile. The patient is, uh, you know, not emotionally stable. There is. And Doctor Lowenstein can talk more about that. You know, there’s, uh, hormonal imbalance. There is, uh, chemical imbalance. There’s so many things going on, um, that the job cannot be done with pure rapid detoxification. So you can’t put a patient on the day of detox and send them to hotel room. For me, that should be illegal.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: It’s a really good point. We’re already forming an answer to this next question a little bit. It sounds like we want to make sure that we’re looking for a place that has proper respect. Credentialing, uh, all of those things where they’re approaching this as a medical problem and that you have medical expertise. It opens up this idea. , I wonder if I’m someone who’s looking for a treatment, if I’m looking for detox services, what are some of the questions I should have or things I should be aware of when I’m evaluating a choice of a program?

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Michael?

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: So when you’re evaluating a choice for a program, I think it’s important to look at what the programs are claiming or promising they can do. Um, so when you look at opiate detox, I think the first important thing is we need to treat the opiate dependence. Um, because that’s one common feature of all the patients we see is they’re all opiate dependent, and they may be benzo dependent, and they may be using methamphetamine and other things. But the core issue where we’re looking at first is the opiate dependence. And as Clare mentioned, you know, opiate use affects hormones, it affects testosterone production. It affects dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin and all those neurotransmitters and hormones are out of balance. They’re just out of whack from the opiate use. So um, once we remove the opiates or treat the dependence, then we need to deal, um, with that, as you know, afterwards. So I think when you’re looking at treating the opioid dependence, number one is, um, is somebody going to carefully evaluate the underlying medical issues, um, carefully look at what substances somebody is using or abusing. And very rarely it’s just opiates anymore. The majority of patients that are using fentanyl from the street are also using methamphetamine. Now to, you know, the opiates suppress and the methamphetamine, you know, keeps them awake and, and counteracts a lot of the sedating side effects. Um, so you have to have a good understanding. And there’s some cases where I’ll evaluate patients before they’re even admitted to the program. And if there’s underlying medical concerns I have, we’ll request additional medical records, um, additional testing. So before someone even comes out to see us, I want to make sure that I have an understanding of their underlying medical history.

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: And then once you get to the hospital, I think it needs to be a full-service hospital credentialed, um, that has all the appropriate personnel and capabilities. Um, I work with a cardiologist with every patient. You know, we do X-ray testing, we do EKGs, we do blood work to really have a full understanding. I think, as Clare mentioned, the day before admission, um, we get to hydrate patients and flush out the drugs that we know about and the drugs we don’t know about. You know, we have xylazine and the fentanyl. Now, there’s a lot of other things we’re dealing with that um, patients may not even be aware of. So I think the premedication, the pre-evaluation, all of that is essential. And then you have to have somebody who’s, uh, doctor performing that’s had experience, um, that knows what to look for, um, knows what to expect as a possible, you know, possibly can occur during and that should be performed in a setting like the ICU where you’re ready for whatever, um, you know, these and you just want to keep these patients stable and safe and comfortable. Um, and then afterwards, as Clare mentioned, um, there’s a lot of things that we now have to address. Patients have been masking, um, mental pain, physical pain and all of these things we now have to deal with, um, in an appropriate, supportive setting, uh, aftercare was professionally staffed. And we can give medications to, um, help provide some comfort as the body has to transition to find its new normal. So, you know, we need to support the patients with some medications, with therapy, with all those things, um, to make them successful.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: We talk a lot on the show about individualization of treatment. That’s one of the hallmarks of good treatment. And I think one thing that’s important is to remember that anyone can say that. But you’re talking about the practice of individualization. And I think if someone’s coming in for a treatment of any kind, uh, you want to watch for those signs of is someone actually taking measures? Is someone actually getting to know me and asking questions? Is someone doing tests, as you put it, or am I just getting a pamphlet that says, show up at this time and say this day that wouldn’t be. That wouldn’t be what we’d feel comfortable with, right? And then neither should a prospective patient coming in for that. Very important.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: I think that’s that’s one of the, you know, main differences as well, is that, uh, Doctor Lowenstein does not offer just one protocol. So, uh, every procedure is tailored to the patient. You know, there is, uh, medically assisted detoxification. There is detoxification under sedation. Um, and the length of time in the protocol, the treatment the patient will receive is truly based on their health needs. So when you say, you know, what should I ask? The first thing you should ask is if there is just one treatment. Because if. The hospital, the clinic, or is offering just one treatment, it’s very likely that a lot of patients that shouldn’t be going through “that treatment” will undergo “that treatment”. Not as safe because there was no other options. So and again, when you admit the patient in the morning of, you don’t even know if the patient is not a good candidate for that treatment. So being able to, you know, do your due diligence, you know, your comprehensive assessment and tailor the treatment to the patient with anesthesia, without anesthesia, with sedatives, whatever that is, is extremely important.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: It reminds me of the old expression, right? If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Um, so you want to make sure that you have a toolbox, is what you’re saying. And I guess, uh, come tell me if I’m right or wrong about this, but there may even be times where it’s appropriate to delay the actual detox procedure until some of those underlying, uh, physiological medical problems are stabilized. Is that true?

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: Yeah, absolutely. I often talking to patients that sometimes it can be an acute finding, like they have some upper respiratory tract infection or something going on that needs to be appropriately treated. Um, sometimes it’s underlying cardiology or endocrine or um, whatever that needs to be a little more optimized or investigated further, um, before we’ll actually accept them as a patient. Um, and, you know, there are patients where I say you are not a candidate for, um, the rapid detox under sedation for x, y, and z reason. But I think you’re a good candidate for this. That will get you to the same place and effectively, safely. Um, and that I would recommend this for you. So there’s no one-size-fits-all. Um, there truly isn’t. So, um, we need to be able to customize and optimize and provide the best treatment for the patient based on, um, their underlying issues. And there’s patients that I say no to because I honestly don’t feel that they’re a candidate and may benefit from something different. Mhm. Um, so. I think that’s very important.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: You gotta remember, the patients are on opioids, opioids, meth. Just not just, uh, emotional symptoms, but physical symptoms. So, you know, if you or me feel something, we know something is wrong. But if I feel a pain in my elbow, I know something’s wrong with my elbow. If I feel something wrong, you know, on my back, something’s wrong with my back. And oftentimes these patients do not have that physical response. So once they get into the hospital, they know Doctor Lowenstein can find issues that they had no idea, you know, from, um, you know, their level of, um, you know, of oxygen to, uh, as you said, the infections they did not know they had in their bodies. So it’s, uh, really important to, uh, again, uh, give patients the care they deserve, the responsible care they deserve.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: David, can you tell us a little bit about what is important for the post-phase psychological needs? Someone comes out of the detox process. Uh, what are some of the things that we would do to evaluate or help people with the psychological needs?

David B. Livingston LMFT: Yeah. So, um, I would say initially trying to give them just orient them as to what they’re feeling. Try, uh, because I’ve been doing this and working with Clare and Doctor Lowenstein for close to 20 years. I have a really good sense of the process they’re in as they explain their symptoms. Uh, mostly physically. In the beginning. I can help orient them. And as they orient and understand what it is they’re going through and the process that is actually going to help them feel better. Um, usually sleep is, uh, the biggest hinge that, uh, regulates the nervous system. And as they start to sleep well with, as Doctor Lowenstein, um, uses medications and we help with that process because that’s usually one of the biggest difficulties after detoxing. So knowing that we’re going to assist with that, knowing that they’re that that is the process that is going to help them move forward and feel better, uh, immediately gives them some relief because this is new to them, and they do need to feel oriented and they do need to understand, um, and that actually lowers their anxiety, usually, um, even though some of it is physiological and right in the very beginning, but it still will lower their anxiety. So the very beginning part of it, um, has to do with really orienting them and then orienting them and helping them feel comfortable at the Domus Retreat and um, and that, that helps everything settle in and move forward. And so initially, that’s the process.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: As people move into the next phase of aftercare. And you mentioned and Domus is kind of like there’s a short-term aftercare just beyond post- phase to what I say. I say post- phase. I don’t know how long we’re talking to the definition of that is, but it seems like beyond just going and getting a procedure, then going home or as you put it, Clare just going and crashing with somebody and who’s a nonprofessional, uh, it sounds like there’s real advantages to having that option to have a little bit of time and a supervised and very treatment-heavy environment, would you say?

David B. Livingston LMFT: Are you asking me or Clare?

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Whoever wants to wants to go first. Um, we can rock, paper, scissors for it. It’s always an option.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Um. So I’m not sure I’m understanding the question exactly, but I would say this, that after getting to Domus and then sort of, um, settling in and understanding kind of the initial process, um, it’s amazing how the system sort of limits the amount of emotions initially until people start to feel better. So think of it. If you’ve got a really bad flu, you’re also probably not dealing with a lot of emotional issues until that flu, uh, flu gives away. So as people feel better, you’ll tend to see a rise in what they feel emotionally. And then, um, then we’ll address that. I mean, sometimes that’s immediate. Sometimes people come out of it and they feel pretty good and they’re ready to get into things. Sometimes it takes longer. There’s a lot of factors that have to do with that. So just depending on where they’re at, um, and then uh, um, I’ll just try to address that as, as needed. And a lot of it has to do with relying on their own ability to bring up the things that are salient. It’s not really a time to push people too much. Um, however, if it’s on their mind and it’s something they feel like they need to deal with, um, understanding the basis of their anxiety immediately, which may have to do with how they’re going to get better or when they’re going to feel better or transitioning home. Um, other issues that brought them there or, or some, you know, we work with a lot of people who have chronic pain issues. So beginning to address that, um, uh, just, just whatever is needed. Um.

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: So, Dwight, I actually like to break this down and, or I think of it as in three separate. Um, um. There’s like three different pieces to this. One is the hospital where, you know, two days, two nights, three days from an average patients in the hospital where we do the pre-treatment, the treatment. So that’s actually the medical, um, part of it that we’re treating the opiate dependence. And then there’s the immediate aftercare. We know that opiates affect many different body systems. As David mentioned. It affects sleep. It affects your gut. Um. It affects mood, it affects all those things. So then you take away the opiates, you pull off the blanket, and all of a sudden patients are feeling things in a that they haven’t felt in a long, long time. So that transition in the aftercare that five to 7 or 10 days, whatever that is, is where we can address, um, medically what they’re experiencing as their, their gut has to find its new normal, their sleep wake cycles have to, you know, adapt. You know, it’s interesting the majority of these patients will tell me they’ve had sleep issues their entire life. Right. Um, they’ve had anxiety issues their entire life. So we’re not going to fix those. But until you remove the opiates and treat the dependance, you can’t really address those. So we’ve got that intermediate transition period at Domus where um, we can address physically, physiologically. And David could start to address the, the psychological or mental issues.

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: And I tell people the goal of Domus is I want to send you home where emotionally and physically, you’re in a good place where you feel like you can transition home. And then once they’re home, the neurotransmitters, the hormones that can take months and months to reestablish a new balance. Um, so we just put them in a position where and I tell patients good exercise, good sleep, good nutrition, that will make that happen faster. And then they have to address whatever the underlying issues are, whether they have a therapist or psychologist or psychiatrist or have to change their environment or whatever it is. That’s the underlying issues are. So I think you can look at those three phases and we’re really helping with the first two. We treat the dependents, we help them in that transition period while their body and their emotions are finding their new normal. Um, and I like to say new normal because there are programs out there that promise to put people back to their “pre-addiction normal”. Well, that obviously wasn’t a good place because wherever they were is what led them to use opiates and become addicted. Right. So I want to create a new normal, a new balance of hormones and neurotransmitters and help them reestablish, you know, their psychosocial, all those things. So that’s kind of how I view the whole process.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: ++How, how important is it to use that space and that time to make a few of those plans of what I’m going to do after I get home, maybe make sure I have a couple of appointments set up with with whatever I individually need. Right.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Well, um, I’d say, you know, after the first initial, you know, um. Uh, period where they’re just, uh, physically getting better, sleeping and then kind of burying themselves. One of the things that I try to do is really create some understanding and insight into, um, why they’ve been using opioids, um, what role it’s actually played, how it’s helped them, how it’s not helped them, the course of it, um, and what they need moving forward and um, uh, so that as, as that gets established as they can actually feel that as it makes sense to them, they can begin, we can begin to talk together about what is a, um, an ongoing process that will help you. And, and so that’s and then and then I encourage people to set that up. If it isn’t already set it up, set up. I encourage them to set it up while they’re with us so that that is in place to the degree possible by the time they get home. Thank you.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: I think, Dwight, we’ve spoken about this before. I think, um, and I don’t even like to call it “recovery”. Um, I think a healthy life, um, you know, it’s teamwork. It’s a combination of factors that is ongoing. So it’s not like you’re going to come detox and life is going to be beautiful. Great. You’re going to leave. You’re going to be a happy person. No. Um, you know, for, um, ten, 20 years, you have, um, numbed your feelings. Um, there’s a lot of things you did not deal with. Um, there are a lot of things that have happened due to substance use. So you went through, you know. Life, uh, issues that, uh, you never really dealt with until now. So all those things surface. So I think, um. Domus Retreat serves as a place for a few days of adjustment, of regrouping, of, uh, regaining a little strength before going to life on life’s terms. So it’s a safe space without the substance, without alcohol. You know, I often get calls from hotel rooms where they left the, uh, sedation assisted detox, and they drank everything in the bar of the hotel, and then they left and then they used whatever, whatever happens. I mean, somebody that has for a decade or more, um, learned that whatever they’re feeling, they use a certain substance. And they felt better in 24 hours. You’re not going to be able to change, you know, the thought process. So allowing them to be in a safe space where the thought starts, you know, spinning and somebody’s there to talk to them, to direct them, to support them is extremely important.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Because a family member, somebody says, I feel like using I they’re just going to escalate. They’re going to, you know, uh, add their own anxieties into the patient’s anxiety. What’s the recipe for disaster?

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: We hear the term “holistic” a lot today in health care. And I know that at Waismann we take a very holistic approach. I wanted to throw this out there for everyone is what does that mean? What does holistic mean, and how do we actually pull that off?

David B. Livingston LMFT: Um, I mean, just to maybe simplify that word a little bit, because I think it can mean many different things to to different people. Doctor Lowenstein mentioned sleep, which I think is probably the most important and most regulating function after detoxing, then good enough nutrition, which always helps. It helps the gut, I’m sure, and other things. Uh, exercise after you’re sleeping well, will get the endorphins going and help, you know, uh, with anxiety and many other factors. And then I would say good experiences with people. I’d say those four factors regulate. Really that’s in essence what we what I from my perspective, we try to create it, um, through our whole process on, you know, and different factors. So if you can get detoxed, get regulated as quickly as possible because, um, uh, the sooner you can get feeling better and regulated, the the sooner the stronger you feel. And I think it actually, you know, I think one of the great things about our process is it speeds things up. The idea of suffering for a long time weakens you. The idea that it will make you stronger in the end, I don’t it doesn’t make any sense to me. That is literally neurotic suffering. That is not the suffering that leads to getting better. You want to get through the detox and feel better as quickly as you can, and then you can take on the other elements of life from a stronger position, a less tired and weakened position. And I think it’s it’s better that way. So I think in a way that’s what we try to do. When I think of holistic, I kind of think of it from that process.

Clare Waismann, M-RAS/SUDCC II: Maybe a multifaceted approach. Yeah.

Michael H. Lowenstein, MPH, M.D.: I think a lot of our patients are used to treating everything with a medication. Um, and part of being holistic is to help them, uh, look at different options. You know, we can treat their dependents medically. Um, they may need to have some of their meds optimized if they’ve got underlying medical issues, um, or psychological issues. But to really start looking at other options, including, you know, the nutrition, the exercise, um, acupuncture, massage, spiritual, all the different things that kind of make man whole. Um, like David mentioned. Um, and I think in the transition at Domus, it’s really a good opportunity to say, you know, here’s some other options. Even, you know, one of my specialties is chronic pain. Um, opiates cause hyperalgesia, which make people more sensitive to pain and less tolerant. And I tell them, you know, it’s going to take a month for those changes to reverse themselves. So you can’t even make an assessment of your pain for at least a month. But what can you do in the meantime? You can do physical therapy. You can exercise. You can do acupuncture, massage, yoga, pilates. There’s just a lot of other options out there. And I think once the opiates are out of the picture, you can start to give them an insight into what that holistic approach is. Um, point them in the right direction.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And overall the goal becomes trying to find those underlying needs, and I think it’s a powerful dose of reality to realize that our underlying needs are not bad. They’re nothing to be ashamed of. Uh, but the underlying needs, the same ones that drive us to self-medicate, are that they all have solutions that are actually more effective and happier and long-term. And really, the goal that we’re discussing is trying to get to a point where we can start to learn and apply those things that will help without being becoming self-destructive as well, and that that’s something that everyone will have the opportunity to do if they’re able to stabilize some of the opiate issues first, to be able to open up for those to work. Now very much. This has been very insightful. As always. I learn a lot from being on here as we talk about as Claire, you even mentioned I in my own practice with my clients, I’ve moved away from using the term “recovery”. Now I call it health management, and that’s because of you, and that’s because of my involvement with this program. So very, very helpful. And I know all of you out there that listen to us, uh, that’s that’s a powerful, helpful thing for you as well. You can help us as well. We want to hear from all of you, uh, the questions and the feelings you have about addiction recovery, mental health treatment, detoxification and, and all of the medical aspects of that.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Please send us those questions. You can reach us at info@opiates.com. The website is opiates.com that’ll have links to, uh, the audio and video that you’re listening to or watching right now. We’ve got both of those available and also our social media presence as well that you can find there lots of good materials that we love to put out for you. And, uh, anything else that you’d like to learn from us? This, uh, this show is a production of Waismann Method Opioid Treatment Specialists and Rapid Detox. The music we use for the intro is the song Medical by Clean Mind Sounds. Uh, we love to share these things with you. And please, please feel free to share and share this information in these episodes with others, as well as give us a good review on the podcatcher of choice or wherever it is that you’re watching this, because it does help us in our outreach. So I’ll say goodbye for today. From Clare Waismann, David Livingston, Doctor Lowenstein. Uh, thank you so much for listening. Once again, keep asking questions because when you ask questions, you can find answers. And whenever you find answers, you can find hope. We’ll be back again soon. Have a great day, everybody.